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Best Messenger Alternatives
Communication is an integral part of human civilization, its evolution process, and overall well-being. Internet, digitization, and social media platforms became the catalyst that revolutionized the communications of the global population. Here are some of the best messenger alternatives you can use daily.
We have come a long way from expensive landline calls to accessible instant international communication, including sending mobile credits remotely from any part of the world.
Today, we are ever more inclined to use social media or other digital communication apps to talk with our friends and family than ever before. But the problem arises when these apps become unreachable.
Just recently, Facebook and most of its collaborative apps came crashing down. Billions of users were left stranded, and the most problematic situation was the abrupt blockage of communications around the world. People suffered financially, emotionally, and psychologically since everyone remained uncertain about the apps getting back online for many hours.
According to the recent bureau report of the Business Line titled ‘Time spent on rival apps grew up to 23% during Facebook Outage: Report‘, an excerpt is identified to be very impactful, which we have shared below.
“Instagram’s average time spent on Android fell 28 per cent Week on Week (WoW). Usage of Facebook’s Android app was down by 24 per cent, while WhatsApp usage declined by 25 percent and Messenger’s by 20 per cent.”
During the crash of Facebook and its collaborative apps, there was a sudden surge in other communication and free calling apps like Talk Home that witnessed a whopping 32% increase in its user base.
It is alarming as users search for more reliable communications apps better than the Facebook Messenger app.
1. Talk Home App
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For Making flawless and high voice quality international calls to destinations where the internet is weak or unavailable at excitingly economic rates.
Intro: This UK based app witnessed an increase of 32% while the Messenger app was down. Talk Home App is top-rated on all platforms, it’s available for free, and it does not require the internet for the users to communicate overseas. This platform has already captured a massive global market share, and it is likely to become the best Facebook Messenger alternative in time.
Talk Home offers a great utility to its users; apart from instant high-quality international calls, users can also send international mobile top-ups to more than 240 destinations in the world. Talk Home is all about exclusivity, as users get special access to mobile credit promotions that are not available to any other platform similar to this one.
Pros:
- Premium quality voice calls even where the internet is unavailable or weak.
- Offers most economical call rates and mobile credit promotions to 240 plus regions globally
- Zero hidden charges with round the clock customer service
- Facilitates more than 12 million calls by users every month
- Users can send international mobile top-ups to over 500 global mobile carriers
- In-app credit transfer features
- User-friendly design with a mobile top-up promotion based on destinations
- End-to-end encryption offers ultimate security to users
- No association with any social group or nationality
Cons:
- The app doesn’t provide any free in-app calls or messages
2. WhatsApp
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: For people wanting multimedia-rich instant messaging, internet-powered voice and video calls with a massive userbase.
Intro: WhatsApp is a well-known app to be the top alternative to Facebook Messenger. However, the past situations where WhatsApp changed its security and privacy settings raised billions of eyebrows almost literally. Credibility is the foremost aspect of any digital communication app, and WhatsApp has had its fair share of scrutiny on this issue.
Apart from this, WhatsApp serves users without the nuisance of advertisements and facilitates millions of calls, both voice and video, every month. The convenience and large user base make this app a very close Facebook Messenger alternative if there are no privacy concerns for now and for the foreseeable future.
Pros:
- Simple user interface and the fact it’s a free platform
- End-to-end encryption for user safety
- Simple signup and instant usage
- App uploads contacts by default
- No advertisements
Cons:
- Lacks in call features that are more popular on other platforms like face filters
- Vulnerable to scams and privacy breaches
3. WeChat
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: Group based communications as this app offers an all-inclusive digital connectivity feature.
Intro: WeChat is among the most used communications and connectivity apps in China; created by Tencent, it has gained more users since its creation almost a decade back. The app is more prevalent in China itself. However, the app is available in seventeen languages, so more users join in with time. The app itself is a multipurpose social media platform that offers mobile payments options to its users.
In 2018 the app was recognized as the world’s largest stand-alone mobile app, having more than a billion users active every month. It offers a great one-stop solution to its users. Still, some privacy concerns are hindering this app’s true potential. Perhaps, if the security of the user has improved, this app could become an excellent alternative to Facebook Messenger in the future.
Pros:
- It’s a one-stop social media app with all the latest multimedia features
- ‘Moments’ feed allows users to share their images and other status updates
- Real-time location is visible
- Shake & Look Around feature allows the user to chat with random close by users
- The digital wallet feature allows the user to make various digital payments through the app
- The app is available in 17 languages offering value to international users as well
Cons:
- Lacks end to end encryption giving needless exposure to users’ privacy
- The Chinese government has imposed strict censorship on this app
4. LINE
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: South Korean and Japanese residents as this app have most users from this region, offers one window solution for social media and communication usability.
Intro: LINE was created in South Korea just after the tsunami had hit the region back in 2011; however, the app is now a complete social media platform and is available without any cost. Japanese users are also very active on this app, making it a top Facebook Messenger alternative, especially for the people living in these regions.
LINE is a safe app for its users since Japanese engineers made sure the app was competent to facilitate communications after the Tohoku earthquake that destroyed the region back in 2011. The app itself is a friendly platform for international users. However, the region-based users dominate the app completely.
Pros:
- Instant communications
- Group calls with audio and video options
- OpenChat forums available in this app
- Mobile digital wallet and payment options available
- Offers delivery options like food and other regularly consumed products
- Live streaming for music, sports, even concerts
Cons:
- Japanese and South Koreans dominate the app. Western users are not so familiar with it, limiting its global impact.
- Charges users on local calls
5. Signal
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For People looking for a quick Facebook Messenger alternative as the app allows multimedia sharing and live communication features for a global audience.
Intro: Signal is among the world’s top-rated social media communication apps. Starting operations in 2014, the app has covered a lot of ground to gain the global market share. The app’s top-quality offers users complete security and privacy, which is a great feature. The user interface and experience are also quite simple and easy to use, increasing this app’s utility compared to its competitors.
The app offers instant communication features, including high-quality voice and video calls; users can also share multimedia files and voice notes, which significantly increase the app’s usability. This app has also seen an increase in its user base since Facebook came crashing down a few days ago.
Pros:
- The app is independently audited and is available on all mainstream platforms.
- Offers encrypted security to its users
- Verified audio chat option
- IP addresses are safe
- Safety in transferring multimedia files
Cons:
- Telephone number is a must for signup
- Service issues in IOS devices
6. Kik
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: For people who don’t want to change apps extensively, this app offers an internal browser and social media and instant communication features.
Intro: KiK app was launched in 2010 and could become the best alternative to Facebook Messenger in the long run. The app offers excellent instant communication features, including direct messages and group chats. The app is gaining more users from the corporate sector as well. However, Kik lacks in the security of the users since anyone can signup and use it without using their names or phone numbers, making the app difficult to track any criminal activity even by law enforcement departments.
The app has been getting more users as time passes; however, there is room for improvement in the app that might be a reason for its slow growth. Still, the app is more prevalent in the younger generation and is likeable by students from various countries.
Pros:
- Unlimited texts on the network
- 4 million users and increasing
- Free app and uses minimal mobile memory in usage
- Offers block option in communication services, along with multimedia file transfer
- Internal browser
Cons:
- The app is for users aged 17 and above, but underaged users are also on this platform; this can be harmful and expose them to cyberbullying and even harassment.
- Users are exposed to inappropriate content at times, especially young users.
7. Viber
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For People looking for a secure and full-service options alternative to Facebook Messenger.
Intro: Rakuten Viber enjoys a vast user base of more than a billion monthly active users. The app is considered the next big communications app that offers all the needed features for instant communication, including security and privacy. The app itself is freeware and can be used on Linux based platforms as well.
Viber requires a phone number to sign up the users, which may be a nuisance for some users, but it can enhance the app’s security. The app is encrypted, so there is a security feature for a global user base.
Pros:
- E2E encryption offers excellent security to users
- Users can signup with their mobile numbers
- Users can send unlimited free texts and make unlimited voice and video calls
- Group calls voice and video combined
- Community chat and public chat forum
- News and games
- Allows paid international calling
Cons:
- Video calls are not that high quality at times
- International calls charges are on the higher side
8. Skype
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For People in the corporate sector with high-quality internet services, Skype is a complete online communications solution.
Intro: Skype is a free software to use for making calls and instant messaging. The corporate sector worldwide uses Skype to remain connected with their international teams. Skype has been serving a massive userbase for a long time now, and its gaining market share quite gradually. Yet, users claim that the communication quality can decline based on the internet connection. The app has limited language translations, and access to other apps is minimal.
Skype can be seen as a Facebook Messenger alternative if it can offer more in-app access to services. Otherwise, the market position of Skype is already quite significant, and the corporate users are already using this platform in comparison to the Messenger app by Facebook.
Pros:
- User friendly
- Known in the corporate world
- Instant message with multimedia sharing features
- Group voice and video calls
Cons:
- End to End encryption is missing
- VOIP calls are expensive
9. Snapchat
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: The app offers a significantly secure platform for people who like to share multimedia like photos and videos.
Intro: 200 million users already on the app are among the most popular alternatives to Facebook Messenger. The AR-based lenses and creative filters while in call increase the fun factor of this app. However, the app is for person-to-person multimedia sharing, especially for sharing images and videos.
Nonetheless, the app has become quite comprehensive, and users can now do several things that were not possible initially. The app is more prevalent in the younger generation, and the number of users is slowly increasing with time.
Pros:
- Snapchat offers high-quality privacy and security to its users
- The app never saves your pictures, videos and other multimedia files on their servers
- Filters and other fun features
Cons:
- Limited analytics and user research options
- More popular in younger generation only
10. Telegram
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For People looking for the most secure app that allows calling to international destinations along with instant multimedia chat features.
Intro: With more than 100 million active monthly users, the Telegram app is among the best Facebook Messenger alternative apps currently available globally. The best feature of this ultimate communications app is its high-quality security and privacy features provided to its users. Telegram is among the few equally popular apps in the young generation and the world’s corporate sector, allowing it a more significant market share than most apps of similar types.
Pros:
- Privacy and user security is the main focus of the app
- Users can send voice messages or make video calls completely free
- Facilitates sharing of a larger file but under 2GB
- Users can set up surveys and questions for free to larger audiences
Cons:
- Difficult user interface
- Users need to have consistent internet access, and the app is a must for all users to communicate.
11. Riot
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: People looking for an exciting new messenger app that comes with an open-source platform but offers excellent security and privacy.
Intro: Riot app is a UK-based app that uses Matrix system; it offers a credible Facebook Messenger alternative for people into group-based casual communications. The app is most popular in the gaming sector as players can easily find other players and enter chat rooms with similar interests. The riot platform can be accessed from any platform, offering more convenience to its users globally. Still, the app is slowly gaining ground in the digital communications sector.
Riot is among the few communication apps that offer integrated chat and call options. The Riot app has become more focused on enhancing its messaging functions as per the upcoming updates. There is a vast potential to this app once it gets the interest of the corporate communications sector.
Pros:
- Offers customized messaging and communication options
- Users can choose to share their data with other users
- Safe data and multimedia file transfer
- Smart notifications are another unique feature
- Secure voice and video group calls
Cons:
- Challenging to use based on different platforms
12. Bridgefy
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: People who don’t have internet access or facing a natural disaster can send messages through Bluetooth.
Intro: The app allows the users to send messages through Bluetooth based on their mobile phone antenna range, usually a hundred meters. This app works just like the mainstream messenger apps and can be the perfect tool if the internet is down due to any reason. The group chat function works great, and it can be a top-rated alternative app to Facebook Messenger, plus there is no need for the internet.
Pros:
- Simple user interface for accessible communication.
- Effective communications without internet
- Bluetooth feature allows the user to send instant messages up to a hundred meters.
Cons:
- Live location and phone number is necessary for signup and usage
- Lag in transmissions received occasionally
- The app needs to reboot sometimes
13. KakaoTalk
Platforms: App Store | Google Play | Web
Best For: People living in South Korea as this app is most prevalent in that country.
Intro: KakaoTalk is very similar to WhatsApp; it offers high utility. The app works great, just like other mainstream messenger apps; however, the foreign users face some restrictions and need to sign up differently to use Kakao pay for foreigners as an extra feature. Another great feature of this app is the secret chat feature that allows users to enjoy highly secure and encrypted communications.
Pros:
- Easy signup with mobile number only
- The app is free to use
- Group voice and video calling is available
- Supports and translates 15 languages
- Offers mobile wallet and banking features
Cons:
- Security is lacking due to the non-encryption of standard messages
- Foreigners have restricted access to this app
14. Keybase
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: People are more interested in security and privacy as the app works with public-key cryptography.
Intro: Owned by Zoom Video Communications, the app was initiated in 2014. The best feature of this digital communication app is the highly secure messaging facility and fully secure cloud storage. The app is entirely free to use and holds a whopping 250GB of encrypted cloud storage space. Another feature allows the user messages to self-destruct, which adds to the app’s security features. Although the popularity of this particular app is increasing, it needs to offer more to become the best Facebook Messenger alternative and a global communications app.
Pros:
- (E2E) PGP encryption for enhanced security of users
- Enabled by open-source architecture
- Self-destructing message feature
- Supports multiplatform usage
- 250GB of encrypted cloud storage
Cons:
- China’s influence might raise security concerns for users as Zoom has open relations with China
- Difficult to install and use
15. Threema
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: People looking for the safest mainstream communications app that can be the Facebook Messenger alternative.
Intro:
Three is a paid app that offers users premium security and privacy features. As per the reviews, that app offers complete security protocols that enhance users’ safety features. The app uses randomly generated IDs to facilitate its users better. Three is also known to be the best private Messenger.
Pros:
- Uses the safest encryption protocols available currently
- Zero-knowledge encryption allows added user safety and privacy
- Facilitates one to one and group communications
- No personal information necessary for signup
- Payments allowed through Bitcoin
Cons:
- The activation process is difficult
- Paid app service
16. Brief
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: It is a great alternative for Facebook Messenger if you want to talk to colleagues, clients, and partners in an organised and secure way.
Intro: Brief has all the features and functions you start to love – no clutter and robust teamwork tools. Setup is simple: enter your phone number and one-time verification code that will be sent to you via SMS. Enter your name, and you’re ready to go. You do not have to register with your email addresses or remember passwords.
The app keeps your projects and tasks in one place. As soon as a colleague mentions a new project, you immediately add it to your to-do list to keep track of your current job. Talk directly in the app and create “Hubs” while working with the project team. In Hubs, you can see all shared files, tasks, and chat history. The chat feature allows you to edit messages even after they have been sent. This will help you stay professional and correct any typos or add missing content.
Pros:
- The elegant and bright look of the Brief is designed with professional users in mind
- Compared to Facebook and other messenger alternatives, it stands out for its ease of use, task management tool, and video chat
- The chat and task management tool has built-in Zoom video conferencing
Cons:
- Some people find the price structure unclear
- Refuses to work on some devices
17. Wire
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best for: This application is used to provide services to individuals and businesses that prioritise security and privacy over everything else in the communications application.
Intro: Many people think that Wire can easily lead other candidates on the WhatsApp chat/messaging alternative, and rightly so. Superior security takes into account all aspects of personal and business privacy and is mainly based on friendly end-to-end encryption technology.
With end-to-end encryption for messages and video calls, Wire can be the most secure alternative to WhatsApp for messages and video calls. The industry also knows this as an application developed by the same team behind Skype. It is also a testament to its usability and user interface.
Pros:
- Multi-platform support so you can log in on up to 8 devices simultaneously
- A special sketch function helps people explain things better whenever they want
- Modern and convenient interface
Cons:
- Cloud synchronisation is missing, which many people want to see in all contemporary communication apps
- Shortcomings in various aspects of business usage
18. Jitsi Meet
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: Users who resort to Facebook Messenger mostly to make video calls.
Intro: Jitsi Meet is a rarity, a free video-conferencing platform with all the features you would expect from a paid service. It takes simplicity and ease of use to the next level, allowing you to make a video call with multiple participants without an account and for free.
Jitsi Meet is an open-source platform that includes several audio and video communication projects. It’s the platform’s flagship product and is free to use as a web app, iOS app, Android, or F Droid. It includes HD audio and video, unlimited meetings for up to 50 guests, end-to-end encryption, screen sharing, desktop remote control, and third-party integration with Google, Slack, and Microsoft.
Pros:
- HD audio and video
- End-to-end encryption
- Multiple participants can share their screens simultaneously
Cons:
- No dedicated support
- 50 participant limit in place
19. IMO
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For IMO is another simple and free application for VoIP calls. IMO allows you to make voice and video calls, just as you can send text messages and other multimedia. The application has a clean design, free HD video chat, and a large library of text chat stickers.
It is available for Android, iOS, Windows, and macOS. The desktop application syncs with your mobile version and provides a cohesive experience. It connects over 200 million people with their families and friends around the world.
Pros:
- Shares stories like Snapchat and Instagram
- It offers large file sharing i.e., 10 GB
- You can join or form groups and meet people with similar interests
Cons:
- Anyone can contact you directly without accepting or declining their request
- There is no privacy for the last seen state
- You can’t post your location or contact IMO
20. Discord
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: Bringing people together from all over the world, especially the gamers on public servers. Powerful low-latency voice chats make it the ultimate voice chat lobby that is always active and accessible.
Intro: Discord is completely free with tons of great features like unlimited file storage and gamer aesthetics. It is not a secure business messaging app. The app is designed to be fun and untraditional, with small pop-ups and cartoon-like icons to guide you through important features.
The app is primarily intended as a gamer portal for entertainment and fun. Discord can also be used for business purposes or to discuss school functions, non-profit projects, or an upcoming event. Discord’s success lies mainly in the fact that voice communication over the Internet makes it seem as if the other person is sitting next to you.
Pros:
- Possibility of live screen sharing
- Stable voice chat
- Easily accessible servers
Cons:
- Primarily for gamers
- No support for threaded conversations
21. Tango
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: It’s great for content creators, people who want to connect with people via live streaming and make money on the go.
Intro: Tango is a live video streaming platform where you can make money with live performances. You can meet new people and have a stimulating conversation. This is a big advantage for content creators as it allows them to show off their skills. It’s a great way to make money by engaging your audience.
Tango allows you to cash in on your social community by streaming your life from different parts of the world. With a simple Tango payout system, you can stream your skills live and start a career on the radio.
Pros:
- Free text, voice, and video via Wi-Fi, 3G, and 4G
- Simple and clean interface
- Supported on Windows, Android, iOS, and Windows Phone devices
Cons:
- Text chat is not possible
- Delays in voice calls, especially at low bandwidth. It gets worse if you use both voice and video
- There is no possibility of calling non-Tango users like landlines and other mobile phones
22. StealthChat
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: People who are interested in exploiting the full potential of communication apps, but without compromising on security one bit.
Intro: StealthChat provides SSL encrypted messages, VoIP calls to P2P traffic, all without saving message history or contact details. Use a new security key for every message you send, making your calls extremely secure.
The application claims to be the only communication application that encrypts data in transit, on disk, and on-screen. Transmission encryption is used to ensure that no one can eavesdrop on your calls, even when the traffic is going through their servers. Disk encryption is used to ensure that even if someone comes to your phone and can get your messages out of it, they can’t read them. And screen encryption is basically a lock screen that adjusts over time, helping to prevent “shoulder surfing”.
Pros:
- Messages can be set to be destroyed after a certain amount of time
- The Pro version offers three types of encryption
- StealthChat encrypts all image files and photos using end-to-end encryption, making it impossible for your photos to leak to the public
Cons:
- Several people have reported that they are unable to receive the activation code required to sign up for the application
23. Wickr Me
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: People who are afraid of their personal and private information leaking to the public in the name of communication.
Intro: Wickr Me is another popular, secure messaging service that offers both powerful encryption and self-destruction capabilities, and you can also use drag gestures to do so manually.
The user interface is simple and good-looking. The app is so reliable that it is used by officials around the world. It is available on all major platforms, including the built-in Windows application.
Pros:
- Anonymous accounts
- Provides Transparency Reports
- Burn-On-Read messages and attachments
- All user content is forensically wiped from the device after it expires
- No logging of IP Addresses or Unique Device ID
Cons:
- Limited features with the free tier
- Expensive paid tiers and small user base
24. CoverMe
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: Those who want a pleasant user experience, having peace of mind that their communication remains secure and private.
Intro: If you’re worried about your partner or nosy friend checking your phone to see your messages or phone calls, you can use CoverMe to protect all your personal information. CoverMe is a free vault app available on Android and iOS app stores. While the app itself is free, there are in-app purchases that start at $0.99 and then increase to access all the features.
All data is protected in a personal vault, which only you can access with a password. If your device or phone is stolen or lost, you don’t have to worry about seeing your data as it stays in your encrypted box. Calls and messages are fully encrypted using VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol), which is phone calls sent over the network using your phone’s Wi-Fi connection or mobile phone data.
Pros:
- Private calls and texts
- Self-destructing messages
- Encrypted vault
Cons:
- Sometimes, it fails to notify you about the arrival of a text message
25. Tox
Platforms: App Store | Google Play
Best For: Users with high-security requirements who are afraid of espionage and censorship … or are just paranoid. But it is itself a fairly effective instant messaging app.
Intro: Users can talk to contacts from all over the world. They can create group conversations and discuss specific projects or topics. File sharing is unlimited, and users can share their screens and voice and video conversations without having to put them in their pockets.
But the feature that really stands out with Tox is its safety. The program is open source and was created by a community inspired by the escapes of Edward Snowden. Everything that Tox goes through is encrypted on both sides using open source libraries. The program does not have central servers that can attack, disable, or cause data transfers. No one knows who you are communicating with except you and the person receiving the message.
Pros:
- Functioning peer-to-peer, Tox resorts to military-grade encryption
- At the moment, there is no official Tox client. Rather, there’s a selection of 32 and 64 clients for Windows, OS X, Linux, and Android platforms
Cons:
- Because Tox is relatively new, important features (such as group video) are missing, and the code must be properly checked before it can be considered reliable and ready for everyday use
Conclusion
Remember that communications are the fundamental reason people worldwide opt for digital connectivity solutions, which offer safety and reliability. Today, there are several top alternatives to the Facebook Messenger app, efficiently catering to a global user base of billions. However, every app offers something unique, which might be the perfect solution for some but not attractive to many others. The reason is that a single app might not be the solution for the whole world, yet it may not be that far; a single app may bring the entire world together in its true spirit and service quality.
The closest alternatives to Messenger by Facebook are Talk Home, Telegram, and Viber. These apps offer the most needed service features that enhance communication at a global level. Talk Home offers flawless communications without internet to any part of the world at minimum charges. Telegram is a free service powered by the internet, offering a secure communication platform for individuals and large groups with massive cloud storage and files transfer options. Viber already has a billion-plus user base and has the potential to improve even further.
Many other apps mentioned in the list can be the next global communications platform. Perhaps, with time we can all expect a great app to surface that will truly bring the world together on a single page while it refrains from every type of privacy breach and system failure. As we move towards our collective evolution, digitization has become the driver of various social and economic fronts. The availability of high-quality communication apps will only improve our journey and quicken our pace to reach our collective destination.
FAQs:
Is there an alternative to Facebook Messenger?
Various apps can be the perfect alternative to Facebook Messenger; however, it depends on the user to choose the ideal app to fulfil most of their requirements. For example, a senior citizen might be more comfortable using Viber, while a teenager might be more excited to use Snap Chat. If someone is looking for an app that offers quality international calls without the internet, Talk Home is the all-inclusive solution. At the same time, people can use Skype if the internet is available to all the participants of a collect call or even a webinar.
Which is better – Messenger or WhatsApp?
If we compare Messenger with WhatsApp only, WhatsApp will be the winner, hands down. The reason is simple, WhatsApp has no advertisements policy. Already enjoys a considerable userbase offering several unique features like automatic disappearing messages, which are not available in Messenger. WhatsApp has proven to be more reliable than Messenger since it links with Facebook experiencing unknown system crashes. Nevertheless, personal experiences matter. The chances are that some users might consider Messenger to be a better app than WhatsApp, so there is room for debate on this comparison.